Quotes about the Treaty of Trianon by famous non-Hungarian people
The Treaty of Trianon was the peace agreement held on the 4th of June, 1920, which formally ended World War I between most of the Allies and the Kingdom of Hungary. As a result, Hungary lost the 2/3 of its territory and people. Trianon is a much debated topic, but for now we collected what people outside of Hungary thought and said about the treaty.
Francesco Nitti, Prime Minister of Italy, September 1924:
“No country was perished more viciously in Trianon than Hungary. But this country is dwelled by spiritually strong people, who won’t be resigned to the demolition of their country. Hungary’s dismembering is so dishonourable that no one takes responsibility for it. Everybody acts like they don’t know about it, everybody is in coy silence. The reference to the right of nations’ self-determination is only an untrue formula… they misused their victory in the most vicious way… There’s no French, English or Italian who would accept the conditions forced to Hungary for their own nation…”
Herbert Henry Asquith, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom for 8 years, 1925:
“This treaty is no work of statesmen, but the result of severe and fatal deceptions.”
Vladimir Iljic Lenin:
“The treaty was forced down their throat, but this is a usurious treaty, the treaty of murderers and butchers… unprecedented, predacious treaty… this is no treaty, these are conditions that scampsmen dictate with knives in their hands to unprotected victims.”
Lloyd George, Prime Minister of the U.K., in his speech on the 7th of October, 1929:
“The whole documentation that we received from our allies at the peace talk, was deceitful and untrue. We came to a decision on false principles”
Arthur Neville Chamberlain, Prime Minister of the U.K.:
“The result of the Treaty of Trianon in Europe is not peace, but the fear of another war.”
André Tardieu, Prime Minister of France for three cycles, in his book titled La paix:
“The reason why there couldn’t be a plebiscite held in Upper Hungary torn from the motherland is that in this case Czechoslovakia wouldn’t have been formed due to the non-content of the population”
Tomás Garrigue Masaryk, the first president of Czechoslovakia:
“We had to choose between the formation of Czechoslovakia or a plebiscite.”
Father Andrej Hlinka, the leader of the biggest Slovakian party, the Slovakian Populist Party, 4th of June, 1925:
“Let the memory of the Hungarian homeland flicker in our spirits as we never suffered so much under the thousand years of Hungarian rule than under the six years of Czech rule.”
Lord Viscount Rothermere, the publisher and editor in chief of Daily Mail, in his article ‘Hungary’s Place in the Sun’ on the 21st of June, 1927:
“I lost two sons in the war. They sacrificed their lives for noble ideas but not so that people would do so unjustly with a glorious nation. There won’t be peace in Europe until the cunning and insensible Treaty of Trianon is revised.”
Stanley Baldwin, Prime Minister of the U.K.:
“Europe stopped existing on the day of the Treaty of Trianon.”
Photo: www.americanhungarianfederation.org
Lord Newton, member of the House of Lords, U.K.:
“Except for Romania, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, whole Europe starts to realize the injustices of the Treaty of Trianon. It’s high time to put Hungary’s fate to rights wisely and peacefully.”
Lord Sydeman, member of the House of Lords, U.K.:
“I was shocked by the fact that the only party, who wasn’t responsible for the World War, could have been treated so cruelly as the consequence of some kind of influence. Maybe the truth will once be revealed.”
Edgar Wallace, English writer:
“I am a firm believer of all actions that free Hungary from the unbearable burden of injustice that the country has to withstand.”
Pozzi, French specialist, who was present at the discussions:
“Pasic, Masaryk and Bratinau, but especially Wilson and Clemenceau played a game that will once be the shame of world history.”
“The politicians deciding about Europe’s fate knew as much about Hungary’s geography and history as a 10-year-old pupil whose access into the upper school is denied … Among them the president of the United States, Wilson, had the biggest prestige despite the fact that he frequently contradicted his own arguments, mixed Slovakians with Slovenians and showed clear signs of mental alienation. This sick Wilson was easily influenced by Masaryk…”
A Scandinavian reporter about Albert Apponyi’s speech defending Hungary:
“Apponyi talked with such rhetorical master-strokes, so lightly, elaborately and precisely in his two hour long speech in English, French and Italian that no one has ever done before in the world, that no parliament has ever heard. He defended his homeland with such touching words that many delegates couldn’t mask their emotions…”
Winston Churcill, Prime Minister of the U.K., in the House of Commons:
“Those who are not to reconsider the prejudice of Trianon are preparing a new European war.”
Photos: www.flagmagazin.hu, www.americanhungarianfederation.org
Copy editor: bm
Source: www.mindenkilapja.hu
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56 Comments
who is writing this crap?!
look, i am a “ppl” from outside today’s country and i have a typically austro-hungarian origins and i wanna tell you that not only my family lost almost everything from language/culture until origins and we’ve been assimilated, but what you doing now…
i’ve lived in hu for some years now and beside lack of respect for the past/ lack of knowledge for what an empire means this is just a cheap dream.
you guys (with no offence) have absolutely no idea what an empire means, that it’s formed maybe from hundreds of different nationalities, cultures, habits, languages and so one and that all of those have to collide under one body and soul. hu ppl are not enough educated for this and they will never be ready to accept/respect other territorial difference in anything.
an empire is nice, but without the culture of it, acceptance of others ppl life you will never be able to bring back “the empire”, just oppression which was a lot in the past from you and history will always remember.
this is why i’m amazed, even Jobbik speaks about this and what? you want Auschwitz back?! because this is how things look now.
you can’t build an empire without the knowledge of an empire, without the education, tolerance, respect and what so ever. and keep in mind that this is coming from a formal of you, which was left behind/ outside the borders ignored for tens of years and when i finally went “home” i realized that the empire is just a powerful word with no meaning for hu ppl and that almost everybody hates the formal hungarians from outside today’s hungary borders.
so this is getting really stupid, really…
Father Andrej Hlinka, the leader of the biggest Slovakian party, the Slovakian Populist Party, 4th of June, 1925: “Let the memory of the Hungarian homeland flicker in our spirits as we never suffered so much under the thousand years of Hungarian rule than under the six years of Czech rule.”
Is there any source on this quote? Thank you.
Well Trianon was maybe not right but Hungarians should realize that they were not majority in the country. they were only 30% population oppressing the rest and forcing them to learn their useless language to become majority /magyarization/. Mistake was Austria-Hungarian compromise which should never happen and pity was that that insane Serb still celebrated wit Serbs as hero assassinated Franz Ferdinand heir presumptive to the throne who knew that Magyars are just making monarchy weaker and wanted it to reform. Trianon treaty was just result of Hungarian policy and Hungarians can only by happy they survived as nation in the carpathian valley.
Hungary got what they deserved.
The Evil Empire has fallen, for good, and no war has happened because of this. There are just bunch of happy nations not living under hungarian terror anymore. Europe should celebrate this day!
The Evil Empire has fallen, for good and no war has happened because of this. There are just bunch of happy nations not living under hungarian terror anymore. Europe should celebrate this day!
Terror empire had to be destroyed, thank god. Majority of citizens were forced to mark themselves as hungarians. So the numbers you provide as pre-war numbers are out of reality. They were never so many hungarians. But only way how to get a job in public sphere or to get proper education was by accepting hungarian rule.
But here is the question.
What would hungarians do today if hungarian empire would be reunited?
Would you accept to become a minority? Only from slovakia there would be 5 mil slovakians which would make you only 60 percent of population in the state. Not to mention other surrounding countries. In super state you would not make more then 25percent.
Would you like that? I dont think so…
Please wake up and dont make yourselves idiots anymore.
The comments here reinforce the hostile views from people that plague Hungary with uneducated backgrounds. If only people would spend a little time to understand and appreciate Hungarian history and culture and realize that Hungary had rites that were not observed over its long and tragic life.
These commenters are a great representation of the nationalistic greed and stark lies that built up this reasoning for tearing up an 1100 years old entity. A country, not an empire as someone mentions it quickly adding that we are not educated enough for an empire. To further murk the picture and shed light on his/her confused mindset quickly attaches Auschwitz to this tirade as if we anything to do with it feeling hurt for steeling our country. ( Dear bbb Auschwitz is in Poland and was built and organized by Germans. What part of this is relevant to our country’s 1100 years history? Grow up already! ) This kind of nonsense prevails through all these ignorant comments. Evil Empire? Perhaps you could use that for the Austria-Hungarian Empire that was forced on us Hungarians, too by the Hapsburgs that we waged a war against ourselves. These “nationalities” (like Slovak, Romanian, Serb) mostly were the brainchild of the Austrian monarch who used them as a counterweight against the recurring efforts of the Hungarians to secede the empire and go on separate ways. These new-founded “nations” are nothing but thankful dogs that received some free meal from a wounded nation. It is not enough that Austria brought us into a war we never wanted or needed, to add insult to injury we ended up footing the bill for this carnage on our people. Nothing shows better the fear of having to return the stolen property one day by these new “nations” that it is illegal to use the Hungarian language on Hungarian territory under their rule.
The “Population” of Any Country are not to blame for Oppression or ant other hardships…….But the ALMIGHTY leaders? ?
Long live Kaiser,
you say nothing but lies, liar propaganda:
In Hungary [without Croatia, but Croatia was always a separate Land of the Hungarian Holy Crown, Croatia was not part of Hungary] so in Hungary the percent of the Magyar ethnic was above 50%, not 30% in 1910. Please do not say lies! On the Hungarian territories annected by Romania (Transylvania, Partium, Easern Banat) the percent of Romanian ethnic was 56%. Now what is their percent??? -> The Romanian regimes fullfilled a big ethnic homogenization and epuration, and the actual constitution of Romania declares a homogenious national state (which is a shameful scandal, it’s like a Switzerland declared to be a homogenous national German state), but you lament about a „magyarization” of a few procents. Ridiculous. Do you know that in the Kingdom of Hungary before Trianon there were more Romanian schools than in Romania (Wallachia and Moldova)? Do you know that the „magyarization” consisted in a law to learn some courses in those Romanian schools from Hungary in Hungarian language TOO, NEXT TO the Romanian language? You say: »forcing them to learn their useless language«. This is ridiculous. I am repeating: On the Hungarian territories annected by Romania the percent of Romanian ethnic was 56%, and rest was forced to learn the Romanian language. But I suggest you: please place in the historical context! What kind of treatment had suffered IN THE SAME TIME the Irish nation under the British rule (they had forgot even their own celtic Irish language!), or please mention the fate of the ethnic minorities in France, for example the Provençal people end language, which disappeared. Please compare those „western democracies” with Hungary, and judge after that. Or do you know that in Dobruja annected by Romania the Romanians were in minority in the 19th centur?
These people have expiated the past and the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB5WqpqWdFM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PBM12LI0ko
Think about it before you judge about us.
If some of the contributors hate Hungary and Hungarians so much, why do they read a Hungarian news report? Stupid, ignorant and asinine comments do nothing but show how uneducated and full of hate you really are. Before commenting maybe read a few books about the topic.
As for Brian, I have no idea what you are asking or stating.
Filip, explain, Hungary got what it deserved. How does a country get what it deserves when it never wanted to go to war, yet has to sign a destructive treaty? How is it that you can not comprehend the quotes from famous leaders written above and that they could recognise the wrong done by the “deal makers” in 1919? Are you blinded by hatred? What did a Hungarian do to you personally that offends you so much?
Joe Calve, you’re god damn right… !
To Joe Calve and above:
I do not see anything wrong in comment from bbb or Long live Kaiser. C&K Monarchy could maybe survive if reformed and Austrian part was willing to do so, not Hungarian. I really do not like saying that it was our ( as hungarians say country. Hungarians were minorities. People before lived in country with no problems that this were times when even hungarians kings could not speak hungarian and official language was latin. Problems started in 19.centrury with rising nationalism.
Well maybe in the future people will be able to form some state where more different nationalities can live easy together and create working society like in the USA if not central europe will be always bloodfield.
C&K monarchy paid it price to follow german politics and felt and only historicans can guess how 20 century would look like if it would survive and eventually reform.
Hungarians are bit sad nation since they have no victories to celebrate, they remember only their defeats like Mohacs, Trianon, Arad, Villagos. Een siege of Eger so called an example of Hungarian heroism was fought mostly by foreign mercenaries and excuse me non hungarians as well. So please stop to cry about past and start to act way your neighbours will start to respect and admire you. You should actually be happy you as nation have survived in the carpathian valley.
And do not get me wrong half of my grandparents were hungarians and I do like that country but this protests do not belong in 21st century 🙂
Brian! I understand your point. You however do not understand this peace agreement was not only about destroy an empire. A smaller cut could have been that case. What happened was much more….it was a crime against a folk.
I like how 21st century internet warriors think they know better than contemporary statesmen what was going on. Austria may have been an empire but Hungary wasn’t. It was a country which suffered a lot throughout its history, many parts had been under occupation or foreign rule but its borders were always the same. Until Trianon when artificial countries raped its bleeding body.
In France, everybody is marked French, dumbasses. Shall I mention Romania (“the nation state”) or Slovakia where the only language is the state language.
Re: ’gott erhalte franz den kaiser’:
• »Hungarians are bit sad nation since they have no victories to celebrate«
–> This is not true. Hungary was a a significant power in Europe for a HALF MILLENIUM (for a significant period), until the battle of Mohács, and this Hungary was the major force in the way of Tatar and Ottoman-Muslim invasion. This Hungary sacreficed many-many blood defending Europe, the UNGRATEFUL Europe.
• Hungary was so powerful factor, that the Habsburg Austria was unable to compensate through long time the miss of the pre-Mohács Hungary in front of the Ottomans.
• Every Habsburg Kaiser was also Hungarian King coronated with the Hungarian Holy Crown on Hungarian terrritory, except Joseph II. The continuity of the Kingdom of Hungary was NOT discontinued.
• AND(!) if you visit in Austria the burial place of the Habsburgs, on the tombs of Maria Theresa, Franz Joseph, Queen Elisabeth, Otto Habsburg you will see NO Austrian cockades, BUT you will see Hungarian cockades!!! There is a big problem with the Austrian consciousness. See this article: http://latoszogblog.hu/blog/ausztria_az_mi_es_mivegre
Attn Jan Hradicky, I just happened to read an interesting article about Andrej hlinka written by A Professor Rehak Titled Father Hlinka’s Secret Mission (1919) from Concordat Watch. It is a bit of an eye opener with regards to Slovakia and Hlinka’s intent to re-align an independent Slovakia with Hungary.
Csak az adatok hamisak, 20millióból 12milló ember veszítette el a hazáját-otthonát-vagyonát. A maradék 8millióból kb 7millió embert kisemmiztek.
József Attila: Nem, Nem, Soha. Versét ajánlom ami a magyar könyvekből 80 évig ki volt törölve.
Being the majority of population in other state land is not condition to anexation of the land to another state. Even with the use of force.
The hungarian people have the right to deny this outregeous treaty and remenber and never let the true be lost for history along.
Anyway, hungarian people and nation are strong enought to face the fate of the treaty and the alleged “winners” of the same, that will live in infamy for all along.
stop crying. That kingdom could not survive. People did not wanted to live under Magyar rule and Kaiser who wanted to reform monarchy was killed. This is why Trianon happened. Borders could be done different since yes few Hungarians were left behind but it could be worse. but this is what happend. There can be new state in Central Europe but it will not be called kingdom of Hungary. This is history folks, please get over it. I really think is not appropriate to remember that day as biggest injustice to Hungarian people.
Got erhalte, what do you want Hungarians to do on June 4, break out the champagne and firecrackers and celebrate? Trianon happened because an old neutered curmudgeon of a man wanted to throw his empire into a war. Hungary didn’t want the war and Hungary’s representatives stated their opinion as to why. The has been Habsburgs did more to incite race wars in the empire, so much so, that enemies outside the border could not have done a better job destrying it.
So why doesn’t Austria show some respect and return to Hungary the lands that Austria stole under the guise of the “treaty”.
It is always easy to dismiss the wrongs of history when it doesn’t concern you or if you are not directly affected by the out come. The Kingdom could have survived providing the right people were in place. Maybe it would not have survived with the ancient borders, but it with a fairer representation of the cultures within the “new” borders.
What are you writing about?? Hungary to year 1918 was not hungary like hungary in these years!! Hungary to year 1918 was multi national state called in slovak language “Uhorsko” where was hungarian people only about 30% of all people living there!! In now days, in Slovakia, is living only 8% hungarian people!! Do you know something called “Magyarization”??
Terror Empire my ass, the Hungarian Empire was the greatest in Eastern Europe, and every tribe that joined knew that, that is why they joined. Western Europe wanted the east to fall so they cut the Empire into pieces, look at the good standing of Hungarians with Poland. Not to mention that Hungary was the buffer that kept the Turks out of Western Europe. All those that are opposed to this are weak egotistical idiots who knew nothing of the history of the empire. Hungary and its allied nations was the greatest threat to western Europe, and because they were divided, they were conquered. Divide and conquer as the Romans did, so look at eastern Europe today, weak against its western foes. All these mini countries equal Zero, to all the large Western countries, so enjoy your tiny countries as they have no power against the large western powers that prevail, Together we were strong, separate we are weak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hungary #1
Long live my beloved Hungary, blessed by God ??????
tom bar
Hungary and Rijeka old frends.
Hungary and Rijeka Fume old frends.
First of all, to the many disinformed people: Hungarians = Magyars. Hungary was NOT multicultural state. Why? Hungarians inherited their ancients’ legacy: the Carpathian Basin. This territory has natural borders by geology. This territory have magyar majority since our existants’ beginning.
http://mek.oszk.hu/09100/09175/html/images/8_nagykep.jpg
ONLY changed by the constant wars and massacres, because these wars kill the great percents of hungarians: tatars kill the half of population, the germans conquered the Vienna Basin from us, osmans burned our plains. Hungarians lived in plains where we can find fields. The mountains were unpopulated, only the saxons and some slavic villages existed in a very sparse number.
Coherent territory of magyar in the end of Middles Age: http://mek.oszk.hu/09100/09175/html/images/27_nagykep.jpg
This map show rightly that in north and east not lived hungairans because of mountains.
The mountain nationalities (slavs and romanians) was defended by the great armies of enemy, therefore their population increased in the normal standards. Later (for that), the mountains were overpopulated and the plains abandoned. The Hungarian ethnic territory decreased!
But we have faults also: 1. The Hungarian nobility want more farmer on their fields, but we lived on great territory with lower population density, so they imported slavs and vlachs from the otherside of the Carpathians. And that’s true, the noblemans always fewer than the workers. This also a cause of our number rates decreasing.
2. The politics never thought that these unified territory became separated. JUST to the beginning of the 1900’s. It was too late, because austrians want a war with Serbia to occupy it to the monarchy. Hungary NEVER want this war because we feel it’s weight.
But outrageous truth, the loser austrians still GOT territory from the Hungarian Kingdom. Moreover, they can’t rule it, because hungarian civilians keep Várvidék(Burgenland) on the side of Hungary!
I reserve the right that i never learned the english language, so the complain what i’ve got for this, i didn’t accept and i consider this fake-argument.
It is sad when someone does not know the basic history of their nation. Hunns (came to Europe in 3-4th cent.) are NOT Magyar (came to Europe in 9-10th cent.) Hunns were assimilated or killed by Magyars (The Pope ordered to King Stephan/Istvan to kill Paganish Hunns).
And about the Szentivanyi-family-their ancestors were not Magyar, not Hunn, not Slovak, they were Bohemian (Bogomer, Hauk, Polko,…)
Rijeka-Fiume is correct.
[…] изображений: medievalists.net, budapestcity.org, Wikimedia, mng.hu, dailynewshungary.com, […]
Alright, all I want to say is what the hell are these hate comments? Like please, how stupid can you be? Here are some examples that I just want to say… oh my god, what were you thinking. They literally write the most random shit as if “You have no idea what an empire is.” Please, there’s fucking NOTHING that has any explanation or opinions WHATSOEVER about this. It’s literally a bunch of quotes from other major parties and their leaders that participated in World War 1, or some other random shit from typical people that specialize in the area, such as a scholar. There is NO OPINION stated in this text, and you guys are getting pissed at them? Please. It’s just fucking quotes, my god.
I am half-Hungarian and am doing an evaluative project on the fairness on the treaty, so I bet I have done way more research than any haters – There is no question on this, the treaty was an attempt to murder Hungary. They had done nothing wrong. The Scandinavian reporter on Albert Apponyi’s speech defending Hungary was right, Apponyi made an excellent case and this was a sign that Hungary was desperate. They had lost the war which they had been dragged into by Austria (Hungary had wanted independence from the AH empire for years before the war) and before they had time to fully recover from the chaos of the Romanian invasion, trianon comes along and destroys the country and its economy, still affecting Hungary today. So if the haters did the slightest bit of research on the topic that they just feel like opposing for no apparent reason, they would see how ignorant and empty they have been.
Even officials from the Entente say it was unfair! Get the message.
My father’s family lived on land which my grandfather bought. He did NOT ‘conquer,’ ‘take,’ ‘steal,’ ‘annex,’ or anything else. He worked, earned money and bought real estate that was for sale from a private individual – governments, regimes, politics, nationalism or religion had nothing to do with it. My father was two years old when the family, all of them still in their pyjamas, was gathered up at gunpoint, loaded onto a cattle car with stnading room only and shipped to the new, created-by-Trianon Hungarian border where the the car was shoved over the border. During the trip, about a third of the occupants of the cattle car died as they were not allowed time to put on sufficient clothing to survive the two day trip which took place in the middle of February. My father’s subsequent pneumonia lasted two months. You can discuss the pros and cons of majority and minority populations, who started World War I, who’s to blame for what and you might somehow even justify the deportation of people from their own country, but was the extent of the brutality really necessary? Later the family considered themslves lucky because their next door neighbours were forced to dig ditches, lined up in front of them and shot in such a way that they would fall into them. The next batch of people were then forced to cover them up and then dig their own ditches. By the way, this practice was repeated in our time during Bosnia-Herczegovina in which neither the Astro-Hungarian Monarchy nor the country of Hungary played a role. But Bosnia did prove that for the people of that entire region, World War I has not ended yet. Trianon shows that you can draw borders, even ones that go through peoples’ bedrooms as the borders drawn in Trianon Palace do, you can force people to learn languages, you can rewrite and distort history, but in the end you cannot force people to become something that they are not and you cannot forcibly impose a religion, culture or heritage on people who have developed their own over a period spanning over a thousand years. Genocide and ethnic cleansing do not work
quoting some obscure and long forgotten politicians who have no relevancy today? LMAO.
quoting Churchill? LOL, Churchill ruined Britain, because he made Britain into America’s puppet, and because of him, Britain lost its superpower status and became another American puppet state. what a great man he was… NOT!
quoting Lenin too? sounds like Communist propaganda.
https://atankonyvontul.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/1919augszept1.jpg
no surprise since Hungary was Communist a year before Trianon happened, under Bela Kun’s rule, and the Romanian Royal Army, liberated Hungary from his Red Terror, so Hungarians should thank Romanians that they did not become Communist almost 30 years earlier. and when the Romanian Army left Budapest, Horthy took power in Hungary, so Romanians not only defeated Bolsheviks, but paves the way for the Admiral that all Hungarians love and view as a dear leader.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Hungarian-Romanian_War_of_1919_%28National_Military_Museum_Collection%29_35.jpg
all Hungarians should thank us for it, instead of spitting on us. nobody cares what Lenin said, he said that because he was sad his fellow Comrade Kun ran away when he saw Romanians raising a pair of shoes over Orszaghaz.
by quoting a guy like Lenin, makes you look like a Commie, like Bela Kun was.
http://conflicts.rem33.com/images/Ungarn/Hungary%201918-19.JPG
and Trianon was justice for the centuries of oppression and tyranny Hungarians did on Slovakians, Romanians, Serbians, Ruthenians, Croatians, and other people in their Kingdom, which was that big because they took it over in early 900s. just because Hungary ruled over it, does not mean that they were majority like they claim to be.
just read Gesta Hungarorum, the oldest Hungarian chronicle, which says that Vlachs aka Romaniand lived in Transylvania and were lead by Gelou when Arpad came in.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Gesta_hungarorum_map.jpg
look at this Hungarian map, in Transylvania you can see Gelou’s country labeled as the country of Vlachs and Slavs too. so why do Hungarians say Romanians supposedly migrated when Gesta says they were there? Gesta was written by the notary of King Bela, so not only a Hungarian source, but also a Hungarian government source too.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Gesta_hungarorum_map.jpg
just look at this map of Romanians in Transylvania in 1916 too, almost everything between Carpathians and Tisa was Romanian according to it. this just shows Hungarians were clearly minority, as even the Hungarian enclave of Szekely land was Romanian in some parts.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Original_Photo_National_Museum_of_Union-Alba_Iulia.jpg
Transylvania’s union with Romania was a democratic one, because Transylvanians joined Romania in a referendum, in December 1918, on 1st December, which is Romania’s national day BTW.
Romanians and Saxons voted yes, most Hungarians abstained or voted no to it. but since Romanians were majority, and Saxons supported them too, the Great Union happened, it’s just that the Union was recognized by the great powers at Trianon, and rightfully so, since Romanians were majority over Hungarians, and Romanians also stopped Bolshevik advance right after that when marching to Budapest, when Kun ran away like a coward.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Romanian_troops_in_Transylvania.jpg
Hungarians should be happy they were allowed to stay in Pannonia after they rebelled against their Austrian rulers, who gave them a better life too, in 1848 under Kossuth, who like Kun, also ran away like a coward. Trianon should have happened earlier, in 1850, after Hungarians no longer wanted Austrians to give them a better life. i am glad Avram Iancu saved Transylvania from Kossuth’s gang, otherwise Hungarians would have suffered too from his dictatorship.
Hungarians should also be happy Romanians in 1919 did not wipe them out and take all Hungary for themselves, i mean we could have done it if we wanted to, but we were nice and tolerant towards Hungarians and let them have a country after that.
if Trianon had really been this bad, Hungary would have been divided between Romania and Austrian, with Buda to Austria and Pest to Romania. instead, nothing. in fact, some Hungarians wanted Romania’s King to be Hungary’s new King after Habsburgs dropped out. it would have been a better solution, to stay in Budapest permanently and to live in Transylvania together and in peace like Czechs and Slovaks. but no, Horthy was too stubborn for that.
some people think Trianon was a tragedy because they got spoofed Hungarian propaganda since 1920, and today it is spread by Hungarian propagandists and revisionists aided by their fellow Hungarian, George Soros, born as Gyorgy Schwartz. and so Hungarians try to redraw borders with their crocodile tears and crying like babies over spilled hippo milk. guess what, it’s never gonna happen, past is past, nothing will change, cry all you want, you only make yourself look like an actor, because Hungarians like acting like victims.
Hungarians should stop crying over the past, and get along in the present, so they, Hungarians i mean obviously, could have a future, where no one hates them.
i don’t really hate Hungarians, except the nationalistic and chauvinistic ones, i went to Budapest in February 2017, it was a nice time then, and my mother’s aunt was also Hungarian, so i have a Hungarian relative too.
stop crying over spilled milk from literally 100 years ago, you cannot change the past, deal with it.
Regele you are a truly dim witted arse of a creature. No sense in replying to a know nothing useless Romanian.
and why am i supposedly dim witted erse of a creature? for pointing out some things that Hungarians should know?
do you have anything else to say about it Ed?
if not, then you simply don’t know critical thinking.
@Regele
“Regele you are a truly dim witted arse of a creature. No sense in replying to a know nothing useless Romanian.”
I second it because the lines of history off of your keyboard point very much to 4 periods in time. These to which you try to mask with useless collected internet site posts. Here are the 4 periods, the 4th being today, and in Chinese, to say ‘4’, means ‘Death’, how synonymous.
1. When Arpad allowed you today “Romanians” to flee into Transylvania away from the Roman and Greek slave harvesting period.
2. Missing the point of the Magyar population loss by the Mongol Hordes & Tartars in the middle ages, and then the quick rabbit repopulation obviously with the help of the Turks in the Romanian region. Romanians=Dacs+Vlachs+Turks+Gypsies
3. The period during the Hapburgs up to Trianon, birthday for the Gypsies given their own country.
4. The amazement in watching the French, getting what their KARMA today for Trianon, and are poorly trying to cover up. Islamization, hordes of tax dollar scavengers, killers, bombers and rapists. A system due to fail soon with the Liberal retards in power.
Regele, well lets see. What you wrote is so far fetched and shows the typical ignorance of a simple minded backwards thinking Romanian. Sorry, but out of 23 million people, 90% of you are living in the stone age and do not have any semblance of critical thinking. You just believe anything your government tells you or if you make it to a school, soak up the propaganda printed in a text book. Show me on a historical map by any famous cartographer Romania in it’s present location. I’ll give you some names of early famous cartographers to help you. Bleau, Mercator Van Aa. On Bleau’s 1571-1638 Romania is found south of Bulgaria. I guess in your world Bulgaria was Dacia too. Mercator 1512-1594, No Romania anywhere. Moldavia, yes, east of the Carpathians where it lies today. Van Aa 1724, nope, no Romania. Moldavia and Wallachia, yes they are east of the Carpathians. Why are you listening to lies being fed from fascist Romanians? Why do try and “create” a historical Romania when it never existed? Interesting enough, Hungary is found on all three maps exactly where Hungarian cartographers place it. How is that possible that Hungarian cartographers show the same exact details that foreign cartographers show. Must be a conspiracy, hmm?
Stop being a bloody dolt and educate yourself outside of narcissistic Romanian bull crap.
You guys are saying that in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Hungarians were the majority and that they were oppressors and wanted to make Hungarian/Magyarize the minorities etc…
That isn’t true. The Austrians were the big-power, the majority, the oppressors – they even wanted to Germanize Hungary and Hungarians, by taking away the language (a language that isn’t useless at all – a very complex and harmonious language), culture, history, etc… They even tried to destroy and re-write Hungarian history.
Also, even though it was called Austria-Hungary, even if it was supposed to be a dual monarchy, it was people just called it Austria – Austria was the main power, the majority.
Of course, I am not trying to blame Austria and put them to shame, but I am just trying justify the false comments you guys wrote.
Those comments were very very insulting. Shame on you.
Trianon is a very sensitive point in Hungarian history and you guys show no respect (except those ones who stood up to Hungary, to the truth)
There are minorities everywhere, in every country. In Hungary, they were treated with respect and were given the dignity that they deserved. They had happy lives.
You forget to mention many many things, and are very rude.
Please, reconsider all the bad things you said about this beautiful and glorious country. (no pressure, the other countries are also beautiful and glorious 😀 )
You guys are rude with Hungary.
You forgot to mention so many things.
And put all the blame on Hungary.
The Austrians were in power, they were the majority and wanted to ‘Germanize’ Hungary and also the surrounding countries.
We were supposed to be a dual monarchy.
Your comments were very very insulting!
Trianon is a sensitive point in Hungarian history, along with many.
And insulting comments are fake and immature. You spoke from one perspective and that side wasn’t even true! You forgot to mention the truth.
Please reconsider your rude comments.
In one period Hungary was a way larger than it should be and then, since nature likes balance, it became possibly smaller than it should be. Nothing wrong with that.
My dear Magyar brothers and sisters and friends of Hungary. Please realize that even in this day and age the people who live in the countries that reaped the benefits of territory from dismembered Hungary, primarily Romanians, Slovaks and Serbs are historically ignorant and will deliberately distort facts, rely on myths and fables to justify and maintain their ill gotten gain.
It is incredible that the Romanians , Serbians, Czechs, Slovenians, Slovaks did not want any longer to live under the friendly Hungarian rule? Nobody actually. Why? Have we Hungarians done something wrong by then?
In the last 100 years the Romanian troops entered 2 times in Budapest to free Hungary from the communists and from the Nazi so eventually Romanians did something good for the Hungarian people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Budapest
I found my way here as I am doing research on a paper regarding Slovakia. I have followed our history down from the Middle Ages to WWI. In order to draw some sort of conclusion to the history of my family ( I am one half Slovak on my paternal side. Both of my Grandparents came to the US at the turn of the 19th/20th century). I am attempting to elicit a sound thesis for Slovak nationhood in post WWI Europe , without involvement from the Czechs. The facts have filtered down to nationhood being an impossibility because the Magyars acted much like the white people of the early US. They ( both the white man in the US and the Magyars ) believed that the populations they had subjugated , were simple-minded people who were not capable of self-determination.
Albeit , the Slovaks did not have a strong cultural foundation ( language, art, music…etc ) until the mid-18th century, they continued to struggle against the Magyar yoke. The 19th century saw a greater crackdown on the Slovaks as their Slovenska Matica , was abolished by the Magyars and they were forbidden to use Slovak as a primary linguistic tool. Slovenska Matica was their attempt to forge a national identity in the face of nearly 1,000 years of Magyar rule. Both of my Grandparents refused to utter a word of Magyar ever again when they landed in the US. Our town had a small Hungarian enclave and my Grandmother had dear friends from church that were Magyar and my Babicka would speak English only , with them. My Grandfather’s enmity ran very deep, and he refused to go to the church functions. My Babicka ( please excuse my lack of proper diacritical marks, my keyboard lacks them ) was Protestant and very devout. There is nothing from any relative either here in the US or those in Slovakia – that supported Hungary and the Magyars. Those interviewed told stories of never feeling comfortable in their homeland. I still treasure those talks : I was lucky tho have them well into their 90’s when I did a high school project on my ancestry. I am now in my early 60’s and will be leaving the US to retire in Slovakia. My curiosity will drive me to Budapest to continue my research. At this point , I have no sorrow for Hungary. If they thought they were above those they oppressed and subjugated, Trianon was just. In my mind it was nothing more than colonialism and the Magyars treated the Slovaks ( and a myriad of like cultures ) as subalterns….just as the British with India, Ireland, and 2/3rds of the world ; just as the US with their indigenous populations , and those that they colonized in the 19th/early 20th centuries. Political slight-of-hand by the Austrians or not , Hungary knew what it was doing for 1,000 years and chose to act like unenlightened conservatives , they could have been on the forefront as an empire with a varied and homogeneous population that was content to be part of it. Instead they acted like asses and got theirs handed to them.
This Hungary sacreficed many-many blood defending Europe, the UNGRATEFUL Europe. •
Oh please. Your ancestors pillaged Europe from Atlantic to Mediterrana 1000 years before, you ungrateful. It was the Holy Roman Empire, the germans under Otto who put an end to it. 10.000 perished at Lechfeld and leaders hanged in Augsburg. It was afterwards that the HRE decided they’d baptize the remaining to catholicism put a crown on some of their leaders and give them the visum to form a state. The ungrateful Europe.
1. You were “allowed” to continue to exist in Europe by Holy Roman Empire after loss at Lechfeld that put an end to West incursions. It as the price Europe paid to have rest.
2. What about the losses at the hands of Magyar hordes. Funny that only Magyars saw a loss. Saying Romanians are Turks is very ignorant. What was that great king of yours called? Vajk?
3. Calling Romanians Gypsies is all you’re good at. Calling anyone anything was what lead to Trianon. Karma is a …
4. Well the islamists are acting like migrators. Karma is indeed a …
All these delusional people in the comment section disregarding the fact that more than 30% of Hungarians were left outside Hungary. Most of them on territories that literally connected to the border…
Trianon was against Wilson’s self-determination theory, because it was NOT based on democratic plebiscite (general equal&secret ballots). Let’s don’t forget: Without democratic plebiscites about the borders, there was no demonstrable popular legitimacy/acceptance behind any territorial changes, so it could lead only to arbitrary political decisions (aka. dictate). The decision was made about the people, but without the people in a room behind closed doors.
Interestingly, when the Hungarian politicians offered democratic plebiscites about the disputed territories under the control of Western ENTENTE officers in the polling stations, but the Czech, Romanian and Serbian politicians vehemently PROTESTED against the very idea of democratic referendums at the Paris Peace Conference. And why? The Czech politicians didn’t trust in Slovaks, because only very few Slovaks joined to the so-called “Czechoslovak”army against the Hungarians in 1919 (and Slovaks represented only 53% ratio in Northern parts of Hungary). Romanian politicians didn’t trust in Transylvanian Romanians, perhaps they didn’t want to join to the traditionally seriously backward & poor Romania (the ratio of Romanians were only 53% in Transylvania). Serbs were small minority (22% !!!) in Voivodine. Similar to Romania, Serbia was also a very backward Orthodox country without serious urbanization or industrialization. Just imagine how “civilized” were these countries: overwhelming majority of the population of the Kingdom of Romania and Kingdom of Serbia could not read and write in the era of the first WW1.
It was not wonder that the US Congress did not sign this anti-democratic dictate.
Despite of the much-touted “people’s self-determination” idea of the Allied Powers, after World War I only one plebiscite (later known as the Sopron plebiscite in 1921) was allowed concerning disputed borders on the former territory of the Kingdom of Hungary. It settled a small territorial dispute between the First Austrian Republic and the Kingdom of Hungary. During the Sopron-area plebiscite in 1921, the polling stations were supervised by British, French, and Italian army officers of the Allied powers. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopron_plebiscite
What is the origin of Slovaks.
The simple political interests and the typical chauvinist national narcissism created the so-called NATIVIST theories in the era of the national awakening. In the 19th century , it was politically very hard for the Slovaks to build any territorial demands and claims on the basis of their late medieval era migratory past, thus the early Slovak nationalists had to fabricate a NATIVIST autochonist fairy tale history to create a national identity.
Slovak is one of the youngest ethnonym in Europe, the “Slovak” term was born only in the 15th century, in the early modern period. Without own ethnonym, we can’t even speak about identity or ethnicity. Unlike the Czechs, Croats, Polish (some white Croats), Serbs etc…who had real ethnonyms, their late born ethnonym the “Slovak” is not a real ethnonym , its meaning: “something Slavic language speakers”. No wonder: Slovaks were early modern period mixture of immigrants: Czech Hussites from the N-west, Polish immigrants from the north, Local Hungarians, nomadic Vlach settlers in Eastern Slovakia, Rusyn people in the east, and some German settlers. This modern mixture had a clear impact on various Slovak “dialects”. In the reality this were not dialects but rather different languages. This mixature is mirrored in their many old languages Until the birth of the unified “Central Slovak” language in the 19th century, some of the Slovak dialects were closer to Czech language, others were closer to Polish language another dialects were closer to the Rusyn language. So Slovaks did not have even a common mutually intelligible language (which is a corner point of a real nation or an ethnic group) until the Slovak linguistic reforms of the 19th century.
You can read about it here: https://www.101languages.net/slovak/dialects.html?fbclid=IwAR19gTNaoArw_vhLG3A5bJoXDZ2UWYC7BgHvInt6S66q2NQxnKIJOuaRrzo
The common unified mutually intelligible Slovak language was spread by the Czechoslovak school system during the interwar period and the communist era, which remained the central policy and goal of the Czechoslovak governments.
The Slovak “ethnic group” is a young modern artificially and politically designed/MANUFACTURED product instead of real natural/organic historic development.
In the reality, the late-nomad Vlach shepherds of the Balkans (the ancestors of modern Romanians) migrated from Bulgaria and South-Eastern Serbia to the present-day territory of Romania in the 13th century. Their closest language relatives are the romance speaking people of the Balkans, the Aromanians. Their closest genetic relatives are the Montenegrin and Macedonian people according to modern autosomal and full genome admixture researches. The irrational Daco-Roman continuity myth is nothing more than a typical “NATIVIST” (and autochonist) propaganda of the 18th century, and a fine example of the hardcore wishful thinking and wannabee-ism. Such nativist origin theory fabrication became very popular and politically extremely important during the dawn of early nationalism, especially in the case of ethnic groups, whose elite had immense terriotorial claims (towards all possible directions), but their commoners had still weak identity and national cohesion that time.
Finally this “civil religion” became a compulsory curriculum in communist era Romanian schools, and due to the indoctrination of Romanian children at young age, this national credo became the central core of modern Romanian identity since the education directives of Gheorghiu-Dej and Ceausescu.
Originally this doctrine was fabricated to serve as a so-called “justification” for similar territorial expansionist ambitions as the German Lebensraum theory in the early 19th century.
This chauvinist nativist propaganda was born and started with the teachings of the “Transylvanian School” (A political actvisit “cultural” organization) in the era of national awakening. The fantasies and myths of “Transylvanian School” strictly served and followed the Romanian national & political interests since the very beginnings. Fortunately it is not generally accepted by western academic scholars. That’s why all major Western Encyclopedias (E.Encarta, E. Britannica, E.Americana, German Brockhaus, French Larousse etc…) mention the Romanian state-supported daco-Romanian doctrine, but they are also mention the reality: the Vlach nomad migration from the South Balkans in the 13th century.
Read this excellent essay about the origin and migration of Romanians:
https://daco-roman.blogspot.com/2021/02/the-problems-of-daco-roman-theory.html